Monday, 9 May 2011

Shooting on Lakeside Road: man dead

I'm just back from the scene. It's another desperately sad waste of a young life. Here's what I have at the moment, although as ever in these situations update your fellow Bush readers with what you know via the comments:
  • A man was shot at just after 1600 on Lakeside Road on the way down to Brook Green as you're leaving the Bush
  • The man is thought to be in his 20s. An air ambulance was called but he had died by the time it got there
  • I've been told by a source that the police suspect the attack was a gang-related crime, but officially this can't be confirmed until it's been investigated
  • The attack will be investigated by Operation Trident
  • No arrests have been made
Check back for updates as they come in...

Although the local media ignore some gun incidents that take place in the Bush, such as this one off Askew Road recently, I suspect there will be coverage of this one given the fact someone has died.

Some of you might recognise that this shooting has taken place in roughly the same area that Kodjo Yenga was murdered by a large gang. The local gang in these parts call themselves "Murder Dem Pussies" which is why you can sometimes see the initials "MDP" scrawled on walls and fences. I would imagine collars are being felt as we speak.

1830 UPDATE: BBC Radio have confirmed that eye witnesses saw the man shot as he sat inside a car. The police have secured the car and are examining it as we speak.

2000 UPDATE: I have just come back from the scene again where not only are there crowds of stunned local residents but a close group of people who I can only assume are in some way related to the victim. One woman in particular was clearly in a great deal of distress and was being helped away by both the others around her and the police. That is the human cost of this madness. 

2220 UPDATE - The Police have made an arrest according to the BBC. One man has been taken to a police station in relation to the killing. No further details as yet but keep checking back for more. In the meantime share your thoughts and information using the comments below.

0630 TUES UPDATE: A resident of Lakeside Road, the road in which this murder took place, has left a telling comment on this blog. S/he says this:
"I'm a resident on Lakeside Road, it was never the way it is now. They say clean up the streets well the government need to concentrate on doing exactly that but they want us to be doing their duty work for them!! Another life was taken. This sad sorry episode is just the beginning of a life sentence for this young man's family, and the impact on a community, yes I saw the body being taking away after hours of forensics doing what they do". 
The reference to the Government wanting people to do their work for them is something I heard someone else saying at the scene yesterday. This may be because, just at the time when we have killings like this one and other shooting incidents like the one on Askew Road on April 16th that didn't get any attention from the local media because nobody died - our Council and Government are cutting local police numbers.


0830 TUES UPDATE: A Police Incident Room has opened today under Operation trident, which investigates gun crime in the black community. Here is the statement the police have given me this morning:
"An incident room will open under detectives from Trident today (10 May). At present any witnesses or anyone with information should call police on 0300 123 1212. 
One man was arrested on 9 May in connection with the inquiry and remains in custody at a west London police station."
1230 TUES UPDATE: The Police have revealed that two people have now been arrested over this killing, which is being investigated by Operation Trident. Here is the full text of the statement a spokeswoman has just given me:

    "Officers and the air ambulance attended, but the victim, aged in his 20's, was confirmed dead at the scene
    A post-mortem is scheduled to take place at Fulham Mortuary on Wednesday, 11 May
    We believe we know the identity of the victim and are in the process of tracing next-of-kin. We await formal identification to take place
    Enquiries are on-going to fully establish the circumstances of the incident but at this stage it is known that the victim was sitting in the drivers seat of a parked car when he was shot by a lone suspect
    We retain an open mind re a motive at this stage
    Detective Inspector Mark Gower of Trident said:
    "This incident happened at a busy time of the day just off the Shepherds Bush Road and there would have been lots of people in the area at the time.  There will be people who have witnessed what has happened and we urge you to come forward if you have any information, Trident understand and support the community and will work closely with witnesses who may have concerns about coming forward." 
    Anyone with information is asked to call the Incident Room on 020 8733 4648; or ring Crimestoppers anonymously on 0800 555 111.
    One man was arrested on 9 May in connection with the inquiry and remains in custody at a west London police station".
    Later on the same evening a teenage boy [B-17yrs] was arrested on suspicion of murder and is currently in custody at a west London police station". 
TUES UPDATE: If you want to have a sense of the divisions people feel in this community, that don't lead directly to things like this but perhaps create a climate where they are more likely to happen, read the comments section on this post. We've had someone who works for the local neighbourhood watch and then one young black lad who says the local white folk never talk to them just call the police. Depressing.

The Evening Standard has also published some of the rumours I have been hearing all day today but haven't managed to stand up or corroborate. Since they've gone ahead and published however here's what they say:

  • The victim is thought to have been a case of mistaken identity. It was apparently a gang shooting that got the wrong person.
  • The victim is from south London and originally from Ghana
  • He was shot while seated in the driving seat of the car next to his girlfriend who raised the alarm.
UPDATE WEDS - The two individuals arrested over this case have been released on bail according to the BBC. More to follow.

UPDATE WEDS - The Borough Police Commander has been reading the many comments that have been made in the intense local debate this article has provoked. You can read what she has to say in response to some of your concerns by clicking here.


In the meantime here is a video I posted a month or so ago - events like this remind me of the murder of Jaabe Roberts on Askew Road coming up to a year ago next month. His mother left a poem on this blog in the weeks after his death which described the agony this inflicts on families. The video below captures the senselessness of it all.

105 comments:

  1. Am hearing he was gunned down by a male on a motorbike whie he sat in his car!! I hate to say it but things are only gonna get worst.. we are dealing with a new generation that think according to society`s influences....

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  2. They were just taking away a scooter from the corner of Richmond Way and Lakeside road.

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  3. I've got photos of the scooter being towed from Lakeside Rd. here http://yfrog.com/h3v1kmoj http://yfrog.com/h0gjtqej http://yfrog.com/h4qkjsosj

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  4. This area has gone downhill big time in the last two years,

    With drug dealers selling blatantly on push bikes up and down streets answering any drop off to a whistle in broad daylight.

    Not to mention the harrasement late at night by unsavoury indivduals - it used to such a lovely area

    Thank you Hammersmith council for your on top of your Game,

    Affordable housing!!!- go somewhere else!!

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  5. I'm a resident on Lakeside Road, it was never the way it is now. They say clean up the streets well the government need to concentrate on doing exactly that but they want us to be doing their duty work for them!! Another life was taken. This sad sorry episode is just the beginning of a life sentence for this young man's family, and the impact on a community, yes I saw the body being taking away after hours of forensics doing what they do.

    Youths when are you going to wake up, the next person could be you!! You think it's funny yer if you want to play the big man, then stop thinking this is cowboys and indians, your life means more!!

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  6. I hope people report things when they see them. We all need to look out for one another and support one another. Everytime I have called, there has been a supportive and quick response - and every time I chat to one of the officers, they are really asking that people call them EVERY time they see something going on.

    The Safer Neighbourhoods Teams Addison Ward Panel meeting is tomorrow night, 11 May 7pm at Addison Primary. Ward Panels help direct the activity of the SNTs, and sometimes they are really active/dynamic/powerful groups - but for some reason in our area been very hard to get people to even come to the local panel meeting. Its only gotten restarted and right now its not really representative of our community as a whole. If you have had these concerns for so long, please do come along to the meeting.

    My heart goes out to the young man, his famiy and friends. This all makes me sad, queasy and angry.

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  7. No wonder they find it hard to get people to attend. They don't invite us. I live on Addison Gardens and have done for 6 years I had no idea we even had a team! Or an Addison ward for that matter. They hardly make an effort to let residents know about this. I will try to attend as I agree the area has seemed to go downhill of late.

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  8. I live on Addison Gardens too - I thought I leafletted all of the houses and flats on my street (on my own impetus) for the previous meeting - I'm sorry if I missed yours. I don't know if the SNT has a budget for advertising (doubt it) and the Panel is essentially new after being very scant for a long time - and all volunteer - so I'm sure suggestions on how to more efficiently spread the word would be very welcomed by them.

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  9. All wards in the borough have a safer neighbourhood team. Obviously they differ from team to team but as someone who has worked alongside a few of them (I manage some social Housing in the borough) at times they are generally proactive and helpful. You can find contact details for your local team here.

    http://www.met.police.uk/teams/hammersmithandfulham/index.php

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  10. Don't let these local terrorists ruin your neighbourhood. WE together must deter them. Talk to your local police, they can only act on information we provide for them. BTW, last week there was also an incident in Bartoum Gdns - acid [possible gun] related.

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  11. I used to live just one street away from this. I now live just one street away from St Elmo Road, where the other shooting happened.

    Seems impossible to escape these scenes these days!

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  12. The Addison Safer Neighbourhood Team is definately not representative of the local community. It is made up of white middle aged and elderley people. There is approx 1 asian person and that is the only ethnic mix. There are no young people or black people on the team. I have spoken to one or two black people that have attended previously and they told me they would not go back there because they felt alieneated and felt the atmosphere was quite pretentious. One of them also said that it seemed to be a session on snopping on your neighbour, and talking about people behind their back. If this group wants to have a diverse mix representative of the community they need to engage with them. Its not good enough just to put leaflets through letterboxes!
    And to 'Anonymous' who said that "affordable housing should go somewhere else". If you dont like living in an area that contains a mix of social housing and private properties I suggest you move somewhere else as people like you really aren not welcome here with that kind of attitude!

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  13. It took 2 years to get rid of constant intimidation next to us in Askew Ward. SNT were great,but overstretched, regular police very patient with abuse from youth, eventually Operation Trident took over. SNT had to ask us what had happened to trigger the response from Op Trident. It seemed like they all didn't speak to each other.Maybe they just don't have time. Too much paperwork? Fighting a losing battle I heard one say.What happens if this government are cutting their numbers?

    Chris is doing a great job here with this blog.

    Unfortunately our efforts to dislodge the pathetic young perpetrators and the shadowy adults who only appeared after dark probably just moved them on to someone else's patch. The kids so need some better role models to show them how to get a real life. Not so easy these days when crime seems to pay better than anything else. But we can't give up.

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  14. Thanks to the last contributor and good to see some connections being made here for the local community.

    Can I just ask people to stop having a pop at each other though - it's normal in the aftermath of something as horrendous as this for emotions to be running high but the one way to make it even worse would be to start dividing among ourselves. Disagree by all means but lets keep it respectful.

    If there are deficiencies in the local neighbourhood teams of various kinds - get involved and fix them, rather than throw abuse at the people who are giving of their own time to do their best!

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  15. It's a shame that this has happened just a day after this news:

    http://kensington.londoninformer.co.uk/2011/05/kodjo-yenga-trustees-give-asse.html

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  16. So much for gun control...How come there is still gun crime in the UK when hand guns were banned in 1994? How come only the criminals have access to hand guns? Makes a mockery of gun control laws. Why am I not allowed to defend myself against violent attackers? How am I supposed to defend myself against knife wielding and possibly gun toting thugs when I am not allowed to own a firearm for self defence? Is self defence not regarded as a human right in the UK?

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  17. none of you people really understand what's going on. i,m a young person that lives on sinclair gardens and the fact is no one really cares about young black youths especially in this area all you middle class white people. You don't make young blacks feel apart of the community all you guys to is call police inform and get young black kids stopped and searched and harrassed, fact is no white man in this area has ever even acknowledged the youths all they do is call police

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  18. when it gets too late there's an outcry from the white middle class society but when we sit outside there gates on a public road because we have no where to go they call police. all you white people commenting just bout your house prices, you lot don't value life

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  19. black males are 10 times more likely to get stopped and searched in this borough i live bush green and i have 15 stop and search forms in my yard. thats just 3 months these white people don't care.

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  20. It used to be a safe street before, but recently I see new tenants hanging around the road. Openly handing small packages between themselfs. how come more and more people like this are coming to this resident area? makes you wonder if someone from council (rehousing) is helping them to gather altogether. So many incidents are happening in this street!!! thera are 2 security cameras on the street, and this is going on and on. Council should investigate and check any persons background before offering any flat to anybody!

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  21. I'm a teenage black girl from this area, I study and work part time, I have no time to sit around on the street. Please don't get met wrong brothers, but have you ever see a white person being shot or dealing with drugs? If we don't want to be a part of all this, we have to do something about it first!

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  22. Can I ask the young black lad/s why they think this is a race thing? Genuine question.

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  23. Is 10 May 2011 14:54 to 10 May 2011 14:59 the same person? I'm willing to say yes.

    HOWEVER, they have made a fairly good point. If the council is cutting schemes, selling off bits of land that could have been used for community schemes in order to cram in more people to fill their council tax shortfalls then this kind of thing is bound to happen.

    On the flip side, it's not anyone's fault that these people are running around shooting people. After all, no one can make you shoot someone and even if there is nothing for youth to do and even if they don't feel a "part of the community" that still doesn't excuse killing people. If any third party is to blame, it's the parents for not explaining to their kids just how WRONG killing someone is!

    The press used to run stories on how games consoles and computers would lead to a nation of children who didn't ever play outside. Where the hell are those games consoles now? We sure need 'em.

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  24. To the poster of 14:54 (and 14:57?) - I also live on Sinclair Gardens. What do you think white folk be doing to make black folk feel part of the community exactly?

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  25. The most important aspect of a childs upbringing is education and good parenting. There seems to be a major lack of this and this i believe this is the main problem. People need to learn to respect eachother regardless of race/culture. Before you blame the youths have a look at yourselves as respect is hard to find even amoungst adults. Ultimately all this filters down to the children and then guess what, you've got a disobedient and disrespectful child whose life will always spiral downwards with this negative attiude. You've only got to walk through Hammersmith mall on an afternoon and to hear how some of the parents talk to their children - no wonder why they turn out the way they do. We need better role models and community schemes to help these youths who are at risk, as their parents dont seem to be doing a good job. However sadly i know its not as simple as this. I dont want to stereotype parents for doing a bad job as unfortunately it only takes one ringleader or bully to start a gang and reel your child in.
    Anyway R.I.P and condoleneces to the victims family and friends. These things shouldnt be happening in conscieous modern society

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  26. As a life long resident I don't see much physical change. There are much the same opertunities and things to do now as then, with the exception of adventure playgrounds which were brilliant and had a element of risk so essential to teenage boys. Most adventure playgrounds are now gone such as the one that existed on the Masbro Road.

    Anyhow take the Masbro centre as a case in point it has been there across 5 decades and is a brilliant community centre which opens its doors to ALL, today as it did in my youth. If you want to organise something they will help you achieve it. However simple activities such as a game of footie, martial arts classes, organising a carnival, skateboarding, roller skating etc... are just not good enough anymore. Maybe not as exciting compared to computer games I don't know.

    A lot of todays youth black and white expect it all to be done for them. They are not to blame though they know no better and have been let down by society in other ways. The area is still much better than 20 years ago back in the early 80's Stanlake was a misrible place and after its refurb in the 90's it improved immeasurably.

    Its attitudes that have gone downhill. Love, time and energy is needed to nurture kids not money. Mums now have to go to work, and have less time for kids. Improved wealth has also meant more broken homes as finacial constraints did keep people together more. Todays work/material ethics and more broken homes means kids are left to themselves much more and have less local role models.

    Today the houses in that area are owned by bankers and lawyers. Overspill from holland park which is no longer affordable to anyone but mega rich. These new middle classes have even less time for the local community and instead leave London at the weekends to their country homes and don't want anything to do with local housing association tennants. One last example is the break down of a local society. I remember Stanlake road having a street party in the early 80's. People knew each other more and helped out.

    I apologise for my nostalgic rant and admit that it only scratches the surface of what is wrong today in our very broken world.

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  27. 'It's society's fault'

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  28. ok Chris you want shorter posts...
    I agree with last two. Its our society local and national that has changed.

    One simple example is the fact that the residents of Lakeside road back in the 80's got together to have a street party. Today they don't instead the residents don't know eachother and cant be bothered.

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  29. I live on Sinclair Gardens and paid a small fortune. I get taxed horrendously, and I hope that it goes to something good.

    What angers me is that depraved families continue to stay on benefits and not look for employment or teach their children by example because it is easier to stay just under the threshold and receive benefits. This perpetuates a cheating system and kids, in turn, want it easy and not have to do anything productive.

    The government is trying to resolve this, but a state system which supports and rewards unmotivated people is not the answer. Unfortunately, many of these poeple turn to a life of crime and violence, and that my friends, is not the fault of the other neighbors who pay their taxes and try to contribute good to the local community.

    This is not a race issue, but a social issue. Blaming it on the problem that kids have "no place to go" is ridiculous. Where is the self motivation, why aren't they in school, after school work or sports? Parents are responsible for their children and if they don't have the money, resources or will to nurture and guide them, then STOP HAVING THESE KIDS!

    This post says it all: I'm a teenage black girl from this area, I study and work part time, I have no time to sit around on the street. Please don't get met wrong brothers, but have you ever see a white person being shot or dealing with drugs? If we don't want to be a part of all this, we have to do something about it first! I'm a teenage black girl from this area, I study and work part time, I have no time to sit around on the street. Please don't get met wrong brothers, but have you ever see a white person being shot or dealing with drugs? If we don't want to be a part of all this, we have to do something about it first!

    She is an example and model for all young kids.

    Take responsibility for yourself and don't blame it on the white people of the community not talking to black people. I live next to a drug dealer, and 1) their activity is illegal 2) I don't want to live next to this person 3) I certainly had no influence on them dealing drugs. Furthermore, I cannot recall one time when a black person addressed ME in the street - in a polite way. I acknoledge people if the situation calls, but I don't start a conversation with strangers.

    This whole incident sickens me. No one has the right to take anyone else's life.

    My condolences go out to the victim's friends and family and we are all entitled to a safe neighborhood.

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  30. Jo - sorry that wasn't me trying to censor you, the system thought it was spam for some reason!

    To everyone else - keep talking - this is probably the first time people in our community have had a chance to have this very sensitive debate with each other in a long time, if ever.

    It can't be a bad thing to understand how the world looks to other people. And credit to people for doing it respectfully.

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  31. SLIGHTLY OFF-TOPIC, BUT...

    This is the biggest discussion on the topic anywhere on the interwebs and it most certainly wouldn't have happened without this blog. So I'd like to say a quick thank you to CHRIS.

    When I first started reading this blog I thought that it was written by several people. I quickly realised that actually it is just you doing the job which the mainstream and local media _should_ be doing, all by yourself and with no financial redress.

    If you ever want to take this blog a little more widespread and take on some local papers (remember The Chronicle's "H&F News is terrible - let's close it down" campaign?) then please feel free to give us all a shout. I'm a university computing student and might, possibly, if I can find time, be able to lend some time to help. I've also been editor of our student news website... so have plenty of journalism know-how too.

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  32. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  33. I aint got no time to be gettin a job. welfare is hard enuff to get an I even had a job like 8 months ago but they expect me to turn up exactly on time everyday im too busy chillin an keepin it real.

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  34. "When we sit outside their gates on a public road because we have nowhere to go ..."

    Let me stop you there. You're in your teens and you live in central London. You can see a dozen bands, artists and comedians every night, usually for zilch. You're a (taxpayer subsidised) Tube ride away from places like Soho, Camden, Chelsea and Hoxton. This should be the centre of the world, because it is.

    Yet you choose to spend your evenings sitting among the dogshxx, outside a strangers' house in some backroad in Shepherds Bush. I find that depressing, no matter what colour you are. (And, in common with the overwhelming majority, I can't even begin to care what colour you are.)

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  35. "...too busy chillin an keepin it real"

    wtf. yeah real dumb.

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  36. I do sympathise with the kids who are continually stopped by the Police. I used to be one of them. Working on the Shepherds Bush 24/7 SNT, we would take at least 5 calls a night from overly concerned residents about kids hanging around outside houses.

    Most of the time they are just hanging out as kids do but at the same time, with all of the scare mongering in the media, I understand that it can be intimidating.

    The divide between the youth and "the rest" is massive and until they can understnd each other better the police will always be called and they in turn have a duty to investigate.

    Its just a massive waste of time and resources a lot of the time. Money and manpower that could be spent doing undercover work, surveillance and feeling the collars of those who really do blight our streets...THE DEALERS!

    How to solve the social issues? No idea...leave that to the experts (and I don't mean the politicians or the others with hidden agendas).

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  37. One of the problems that society neglects to highlight is it's readiness to accept 1 parent families. Instead of encouraging this phenomonon, I think the council should discourage it. If the 1 parent is unable to independantly (without state handouts) look after their family, then the children should be taken into care.

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  38. We have to try to have an open mind toward one another as individuals -I see that as the crucial start. Otherwise we make assumptions about who does what and why-and people get lumped together and it creates division. My bias is I think its important that people try to do something constructive with their worries.

    As to local groups, sometimes some people may see a need and then respond to it - not because they feel they are the perfect answer but because nobody else has stepped up to participate and someone has to start it. I am new to going to the Ward Panel meetings but it seems like its natural for people to represent their own intersts best - they can try to understand other issues, but it won't be natural to them. That doesn't mean they intend to be exclusive. If people are willing to be open and you feel they are doing something the wrong way -- you need to tell them, step up and get involved.

    The Addison Ward Panel commented on their need to represent different ages, ethnicities and socioecomic diversities at each of the meetings I went to and they were trying to figure out how to do that. They may not have the skills but they have the willingness (as I see it).(I am saying this as a person who felt very 'different' at this last meeting, but who sees the value of participating.) If you sit aside and groan in silence, things won't change. It doesn't mean people are 'holding onto power' - it means, by default, they are in the position of doing what they can because they are the only ones who have bothered to step up and try.

    I sympathise too with the kids who are stopped unnecessarily by those who may be worried about 'those who are different'. It is unfair and alienating.

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  39. 'none of you people really understand what's going on. i,m a young person that lives on sinclair gardens and the fact is no one really cares about young black youths especially in this area all you middle class white people. You don't make young blacks feel apart of the community all you guys to is call police inform and get young black kids stopped and searched and harrassed, fact is no white man in this area has ever even acknowledged the youths all they do is call police '

    This is a prime example of the problem. Some people these days expect to respected and acknowledged without earning it.
    While it may appear to be racist to stop and search black youths more than other demographics, frankly it's a sensible policy.
    Certainly don't see groups of any other colour hanging around the streets and intimidating others.
    You don't feel like you're part of the community? You need to give the community a reason to welcome you, life is not a one way street.

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  40. tyrone sinclair road10 May 2011 at 22:53

    you white people are typical how many black friends do you have. don't try be sarcastic and intellectualise your blatant lack of care for the black community. to the idiot who says he's white and live on sinclair road you are a coward fact is you cannot even approach any young black male coz you scared. you seea black man late at night you cross the road and your girlfriend cluthes her bag tightly. you a coward

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  41. I would like to respond to the posting from 'Anonymous 19:51'. Firstly I would like to say that this forum seems to have taken rather nasty, bigoted turn for the worse. A young man has died and no matter what the circumstances behind his death, many lives have now been shattered. But all some of you can think to do is peddle your petty, bigoted ill conceived views. I will not hide behind the title 'Anonymous'. I give my name because I am proud of where I come from. I come from social/council housing, from a one parent family who sometimes depended on benefits to survive. Perhaps you are lucky enough to come from a happy stable background with two parents present... Well this may come as a surprise, but this does not mean that you are less likely to commit crime than those from one parent families. Neither me or any of my siblings have committed any murders and contribute to society in many valid and varied ways. Indeed we have amply repaid the support that we received from the state. This may not have been the case had we, as you crassly suggest, been taken into 'care' because my mother had the audacity to divorce our abusive and violent father. Surely at a heartbreaking moment like this it is more humane to show some respect and sympathy than to point the finger. We are all responsible for both the achievements and shortcomings of our society.

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  42. tyrone sinclair road10 May 2011 at 23:01

    to chris underwood i would personally say it's a big race issue the sooner everyone understands that the better. fact is chris as a young black male im stereotyped as a nuisance a drug dealer and so on. how can you integrate when we are a minority and all the power lies with white men even trident. kids don't respect trident neither the police due to years of institutionlised racism, stop and search etc. I'll be very honest and say how can a oppressor be a champion of justice and equality. Young black men do not respect 99.9 of white men we see them as no authority and the black ones one the force are seen as informers and sell outs

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  43. This is a prime example of the problem. Some people these days expect to respected and acknowledged without earning it.
    While it may appear to be racist to stop and search black youths more than other demographics, frankly it's a sensible policy.
    Certainly don't see groups of any other colour hanging around the streets and intimidating others.
    You don't feel like you're part of the community? You need to give the community a reason to welcome you, life is not a one way street.

    typical white man, when your ancestors were killin raping and maiming for hundreds of years your forefathers did think its a one way street. do you know what it's like to be one of us dying needlessly everyday in a first world society and the people who took us into this land act like a totol bigot like you. this is why white men are scared in their own country because after years of continual abuse even death seem easier than living, most people in this area are quite well of and this country was made rich on the backs of evil deeds so please try dealing with this tradegy with some respect but you won't because you dont know what its like to be black. you couldn't live it for a day

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  44. to dat gal dat said she was black working and blah blah, man know a white person wrote dat. if not u a sellout, simple plus u give dem people ammunition to say all blacks are worthless. in da end they just gonna get us even more harrassed as always

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  45. Tyrone on Sinclair Road, you are making a big assumption that all those frightened white people you talk of have no black friends. You are generalising and are racist. It’s not very nice to be called racist it? Has it ever occurred to you why people living here might fear other people living here. It is probably because like me, they have been living here for more than 6 years and have personal experience (on many occasions in one form or other) of violence and criminal behaviour from our fellow residents. People must act on their instincts and protect themselves. And of course racism is unforgivable, not that I think that is what is going on here. We clearly have a society divided in other ways and no one knows where to start.
    RIP to the young victim and condolences to his family.

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  46. As a white woman who was born, raised and lived in this area for over forty years I would like to distance myself from the various offensive and quite frankly racist posts of some local white residents. I am shocked that such a sad event happening on their doorstep has been used as an excuse to subject people to their objectionable opinions. Unfortunately these relatively recent members of our locality seem to have very little respect for anyone who is not like them. Most of those who have moved into the million pound houses in our street over the last ten years will not even make eye contact with me, let alone say hello. They do not reserve their contempt for black youths, they also shun anyone who is not of their class. This area has been culturally diverse and for the most part happily, for a long time before these wealthy interlopers arrived. This is our community - let's not all be dragged down to their hate filled level.

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  47. WOW!

    Have lived and owned here for over 10 years.

    Yes - things have changed dramatically in the last 18months, and not for the better.

    Yes - Have i felt threatened coming home late at night by individuals harrassing me, even chasing me down the street at 1am.

    No - was it like this before - No

    Yes - did i have a significant investment in my house

    NO - do i feel its a great investment now - NO

    Yes - are drug dealers blatantly cruising the streets

    Yes - am i sorry a life was lost and is tragic for the community as a whole.

    No - do i think this a race issue

    Yes - does this community need to pull its frikn head in and work together, it is FAR too late to make it what it was - but we can sure as heck make it better

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  48. I've been reading the various comments saying, in essence, that black people are shunned, shown no respect and treated only with suspicion. That's probably right. Likewise, I'm a mid-30s white guy with a rental flat above a shop, a desk job and a three-year-old. I'm shunned, shown no respect and treated only with suspicion. Sucks, doesn't it? It's not because I'm white though. It's because I'm poor and live in a city.

    The fact remains that someone was shot in the head while in a car parked in a residential area, 2 minutes from my kid's favourite playground. The shooting's being investigated by the police's unit dedicated to gang-related gun crime. That indicates to me there's a
    gang problem in the area. The racial aggravations and mutual stereotyping coming through in the comments here are, frankly, irrelevant to the problem.

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  49. Incidentally, I'm finding it bizarre that, in an area with some of the largest Middle Eastern and Asian communities in London, we're stuck arguing in terms of black/white tensions. Are there many racists in W12, Caucasian or otherwise? If so, they've picked the wrong place to live.

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  50. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  51. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  52. Well said Antonymous
    "Quote Yes - does this community need to pull its frikn head in and work together, it is FAR too late to make it what it was - but we can sure as heck make it better Quote"

    well said Antonymous



    Your Find Garham, there no right place to live as its happening in all areas .

    If anyone really cares click the link
    below.

    http://www.londonstreetgangs.com/





    School down to “ List of west London gangs “ which open a page to “London Borough of Hammersmith & Fulham” click on , if you’re interested read what it says, but then click on top page
    “Hammersmith & Fulham, Kensington & Chelsea and Westminster”
    school down again to

    “Ladbroke Grove & Shepherd's Bush”

    and your find out what is really happening in your area in where you live, with gangs , drugs.

    The truth has to come out sooner or later, someone a parent like I has to highlight it speak out ,but no one wants to listen read about it , till it’s all gets out of control like it is now .

    My son was murder on June 04 2009 shot in Fulham, still the police have not got the person who done this to my son , now another shooting .

    When people read its drug related, people just look on in disgust, but it’s happen right in our area.
    It’s horrendous what that older generation of people our doing to the younger youths is getting them to deal drugs for them and if they go to the police they murder them.

    I do feel for this man parents who was shot.

    I hope my post does not get deleted, Knowledge is power, but am at a lost in how to get this message across to the public in what is happening as people are just scared to root it out of our community for fear of reprisal, but people can do it anonymously to the police.
    man parents who was shot.

    While there is a supply demand for drug this is going to keep happening because some of those drug dealer thing they are above the law.

    They is a wall of silence.

    Read this young man story

    http://gangsinlondon.blogspot.com/2008/03/murder-hunt-enters-its-fifth-year.html

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  53. Read this .

    http://gangsinlondon.blogspot.com/2011/04/what-are-police-doing-to-tackle-gangs.html

    What are the police doing to tackle gangs in your area?

    The police are often first to fall under scrutiny when it comes to the issue of gangs. Everyday they are challenged by the public and the media as to what exactly they are doing?


    Lots of disruptions but no solutions




    Hammersmith & Fulham


    Shepherds Bush


    Anti - Social Behaviour


    The Dispersal Zone between Uxbridge Rd and Goldhawk Road tackled community concern about groups of youths and drinkers. A lot of positive feedback was received about it’s effect. It has been followed by a smaller Dispersal Zone around the William Church Estate currently running until June 2011. We enforce the Council controlled drinking zone across the ward. We liaise with homeless persons hostels and do joint patrols with outreach workers. We often patrol with local authority staff to catch drivers who fraudulently use disable parking permits.

    Its a joke !!!! ????

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  54. Margaret, thanks for the posting. You of all people know the impact that this has had on the family of this man who has tragically lost his life. What you say needs to be listened to.

    Can I just remind everyone else to just keep the tone respectful - I haven't censored anyone's comments thus far and I don't want to either, but I will start to do so if people start getting abusive as one or two comments have done.

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  55. Hi Chris thanks .

    I went to this site

    http://www.met.police.uk/teams/SNTpriorities/pr_hammersmithandfulhamshepherdsbushgreen.pdf
    Cut Street drug dealing

    Quote Date set
    We did (action/s
    taken/going to be taken
    (
    DRUGS
    Officers are finding few dealers or addicts in the usual
    places. (Recent BBC article about lack of drugs on street is
    confirmed by our addicts. Poss link to poor harvest in
    Afghanistan ?).
    Drugs dealer in Shepherds Bush market interrupted , small
    stash found - not arrested as impossible to prove it was his.
    1x Dealer arrested & £1125 siezed as proceeds of dealing.
    Youths smoking drugs in Linden Ct / Frithville gardens being
    dispersed regularly. Their dealer was later arrested &
    charged (lives in Linden Ct).
    Drug dealer on Ed Woods Estate chased but lost. Warrant
    later obtained for his home.
    Assault in Warbeck Rd , believed drugs deal gone wrong (no
    arrests),
    Dealing reported in Hammersmith Park / Batman close -
    numberous patrols but nothing seen.
    Arrest for possession of Cocaine in Goldhawk Rd.
    Relocation of vulnerable person at risk from Drugs gangs.
    SNT did initial investigation into aggravated burglary with a
    firearm, four persons from venue taken to safe
    accommodation.
    13/01/2011 - Helped Askew SNT with drugs warrant
    Uxbridge Road, No drugs found or arrests made.
    13/1/11 Drugs warrant Warbeck Road, Around 1.5 kilos of
    cannabis and large sum of cash recovered. 5 arrests -
    bailed pending forensics. Police raided just after unwitting
    postal courier delivered the drugs from abroad.


    Anti Social Behaviour Dispersal Zone on William Church
    Estate enforced throughout Jan / Feb. Estate became very
    quiet (possibly due to feud between dealers making them
    afraid to take to the streets (shots were fired at addresses)
    Searches of public areas on William Church estate continue
    to result in finds of various weapons (eg. 1 knife and a
    hammer on 4th Jan) also various drugs (dropped on sight of
    police ? )
    Groups of youths have been displaced from the estate and
    are being stopped by officers elsewhere and still found to be
    in possession of class A drugs (dealing rather than using ).
    Hammersmith Grove - fight and stabbing broken up


    Groups of Polish drinkers dispersed at Arminger Rd and
    Uxbridge Rd , St Stephens Rd(not in dispersal zone , some
    evidence that the problems are returning to the area covered
    by the previous 2010 larger DZ )
    Caxton Rd / Sterne St - groups of male drinkers dispersed.
    Shepherds Bush Place - problems of urination and
    defacation being reported by residents. (various police
    responses have reduced this but it needs a long term
    solution
    suspects chased and caught by PCSO’ Quote .

    What that left me thinking is are they referring to problems of urination when referring to
    “Long term solution “or to the drugs issue also. I hope so. but it does not read like so to me ?

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  56. Although white as a young man I used to be upset that I too was targetted for being out on the streets late at night. I hated the police! My single mum told me to get real and I hated her for that. Now however I'm grown up have kids of my own and understand that its almost exclusively young men that carry knives, take drugs, and harm eachother. Its not grannies, not young girls, not mums, not business men or fathers. As for the fact that no one cares thats just rubbish. There are many people reaching out to young men black and white within the community. Just like I did as a boy the usual response is rejection.

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  57. I grew up in the area and as a boy I used to get my weed of a rasta man. Yes it was illegal but we were not harming anyone infact he's a good respectable man with a job and a loving family.

    Last summer I saw that same rasta man and he was not well. He had been beaten up by his teenage crack addict son. There was a tear in his eye as he explained to me that he did not know where he had gone wrong. The youth of today are just that bit more wild that bit more detached and lacking a lot of love and respect. The thing is most of these young men have people that love them who are just as bewildered as everyone else.

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  58. In my view the bigger issue is social class, education and parenting.it really annoys me that people living in my area where i have lived the whole 28 years of my life are coming out with such big assumptions and racist comments on all sides - its ridiculous.
    Its all too easy to stereotype a class or race of people due to one, sometimes many bad experiences - Id like to think people are smarter than this. Of cousre its understandable you may have your back up due to things like this happening to you, its only natural and your instincts come into play, but you need to understnd its just that and often not the correct interpretation. Although annoying i see no harm in you being on your guard until you realise this but you must realise this eventually, you cannot portrait evenone in the same light, we are not simple animal beings remember we are conscious human beings!!
    When someone crosses the road when im walking down the street it annoys me because i am no threat to them, but that is just instict and just that. They have a picture in their head to what a threat looks like and they act accordingly, im sure we've all done it, i know i have and the funny thing is majority of the time i recognised my actions were unjustified. I almost find the perceptions we have funny and often unrealistic, but if you have a bad feeling i think its only sense to cross the road or move in a different direction, you'll soon be proven wrong or right and in turn you learn from this. Im sure if your child or friend told you they felt threatened walking down a street because of someone they saw you'd tell them to cross over or go in a different direction?
    If we all start behaving more respectful and improve our mannors towards eachother in time people will realise that their interpretations of a particular class or race were misconceived. Acting rude or eyeing eachother up, giving dirty looks because of this just fuels this interpretation.
    It comes down to education. Smarten up people. Some of the comments on here just create more of a divide. They may feel their particular comment(S) are fine, this is the sad thing - these people probably dont even realise they are being ignorant. This is why we need to reply to these ignorant posts and re-educate them! We live in a multi-cultural society, whats respectful in one culture may not be in another and so on so forth. We are all different and if we want to live in a society like this everyone needs to jump in a make it our duty to educate each other on our cultural differences and practices so that we can get along.
    And if you feel anything that i have written is ignorant or incorrect please educate me as anyone can always learn something new!

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  59. Having travelled around the world I have seen many hard areas from all continents - africa, asia, america, Europe and Australasia - these people live either in segregated areas and either in the worst poverty imaginable and I have visited the slums, the ghettos and been amongst local people in their everyday lives. The main thing is the negative energy given out - even if you dont speak english its an aura that you send to people based on animal instincts, so dont emit that and be positive - simple but proven throughout existence. As for the divide between cultures the world of slaves has been happening since the dawn of time B.C. I carry that in my blood since a time when Spanish conquerors, African conquerors, Asian conquerors, european/western conquerors. Its all relative and gets to a point to give power to yourself and stop blaming others, history is a bad so look toward the future. Gang culture has always been here but in different forms and ethnic backgrounds, my father lived in camberwell in the late 60s/ he lived in the terror zone of Krays, Richarsons and loads of Irish gangs around doing similar cycles. The bottom line is people dont realise how good this country is and how well we have it. In London you live in a society that is multi-cultural beyond belief and you combine mixing rich and poor all neighboring together as one. I am from an ethnic background mixed between worlds but the underlying fact is that we have it far easier here than many places.
    The real culprits are the ones who handed the people the weapons and in my sad opinion it is a greedy elder who plays mind games and they gain not you. I have lost loved ones and understand the pain. The main thing we have to do in this situation is to pay respects to all families involved.

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  60. It seems there is a distinct fear of the unknown - from both sides of this debate. Both "black" and "white" are saying they don't acknowledge each other on the streets or tend to mix with one another.
    It is also a youth vs adult problem, as it seems youth are being targeted by police no matter the colour.

    The bad thing is, instead of doing something to fix it - we have more youths settling into these awful stereotypes by dealing and taking drugs and acting up on the streets, which scare others who react by calling the police. For many people, this is the only option - I admit that I am sometimes scared if I am walking alone and walk into a "gang" or youths who are yelling at others on the street.

    Why don't more youth go hang out at the Masbro Centre? It has a youth centre there which is underutilised and yet has a huge range of activities and support staff there to help. It's bang in the middle of this area as well.

    Too many people are pointing the finger at each other - but I suggest if you want to stop being labelled or judged that you make yourself into an example and prove to us otherwise. Talk to your neighbours, don't disrespect your neighbours property, don't act antisocially and follow the law.

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  61. And as for the excuse that there is nothing to do in London - that is simply that - an excuse. Stop making excuses and start being part of the solution, not part of the problem.

    This is the most exciting and opportunity filled cities on this planet. We have no reason to not have some work or to get into crime. If you could see how others live in comparitively poorer countries you'd be damn grateful.

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  62. Ok. It looks like we're coming to some kind of agreement on what the problem is. So what can we do?

    Here's an idea: don't buy the drugs.

    The dealers exist because demand exists -- and we'd be kidding ourselves to pretend that all the demand is coming from White City rather than Brook Green. There's a turf war because it's lucrative turf.

    If you really want to do your bit to stop people getting shot, stop buying spliff.

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  63. "If you could see how others live in comparitively poorer countries you'd be damn grateful."
    well said!
    They live with a smile and deal with it with not even 20p a day to live off and they are happy.
    My mother came over here in the early 60's with everyone else on the BOATS and she wanted to make a change for her future from the poverty she was from and I know from the pictures - I carry that with me forever - just speak to your family and family friends and learn - I believe in our young they are the future - just ignore the people that pigeon hole you and dont look to blame - thats the easy way/protect way out. Positive Energy Actives Constant Elevation sent to all the families reading

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  64. If you were keeping it real you'd be getting a job!!

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  65. Anyways what is out there for the youth of today? They have taken all the youth clubs away. Mayb they should all go cadets after leaving school for some self respect, dicipline, and respect for others. And since the government took the parents rights away for diciplining their own kids they gave the kids the go ahead to disrespect everything and everyone!!

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  66. Quote Gang culture has always been here but in different forms and ethnic backgrounds, my father lived in camberwell in the late 60s/ he lived in the terror zone of Krays Quote

    That is what is happing to this county now , but with different culture of people doing the "Gangs “ its spilling into the English, British culture and they don’t like it which of course if understandable
    .
    They got the Krays brother at the end.

    Quote
    In my view the bigger issue is social class, education and parenting.it really annoys me that people living in my area where i have lived the whole 28 years of my life are coming out with such big assumptions and racist comments on all sides - its ridiculous Quote

    Your spot on there it is also down to the parenting having positive role model.

    My son would always argue with me about how the government does not care for its people , while I would tell how otherwise .

    "Jo" I find it very hard to understand that people care when it come to drug culture that is hitting England, maybe there a minority of people, but not majority of people, or maybe it’s like one of my daughter say that was studying Criminology before my son was shot she tell me that Its hard to understand unless you’ve study Criminology, only now because its happen to us as a family am I more aware of it.

    She does not like me nor does my other 2 daughters talking or typing publicly about it as my son never used guns, Knights. But his friends 4 of them have been charged with the murder of a young 20 year old, that lead to the death of my son even thought it was proven that my son had no Involvement in the murder.

    It’s a torment really having a child murdered not knowing the whole truth as to why thy shot him so I can go blaming the Rasa man for bring the weed into the UK in the first place having children being brought up with a parent who is selling the weed from the home covering himself with having a law aiding job, if you’ve study child sociology one would understand that it could make a child confused lose respect for the parent no matter how much love was given to the child, while growing up with weed around them in their own home , Its classed as child abuse having drugs even weed around children in their home from a young age.

    Graham E ...Yes if only it was that easy and people would stop buying the weed .

    People can still have Jobs keeping it real and still do drugs , gun.

    One of my son friends charged with murder was a fireman !!!






    At the end of the day thinking from an objective view this is not about blaming someone or a race issue as there no such thing as a race we are all just one human Race.

    This is all about culture differences I am sure we all agree that this drug issue is spelling over into England and British government and its British people have to find solution, which sadly as my daughter tells me there is no solution.

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  67. With every respect, Margaret, I'm trying to think what we can do right now, today, as individuals.

    I can't do the police's job. I have very little power change how people think, or how they act. I can't raise the poverty line. I can't get guns off the streets.

    The one thing I can do, right now, today, is to not buy drugs. It's not a solution. I don't pretend that it is a solution. But if enough people can make the link between gang crime and that eighth they buy to see them through a rough week, we would at least be making some small progress.

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  68. fact is this whole area is divided by race and class. rich and poor, the rich see us as a nuisance and we should get a job and i agree but ask the rich white people how many young black males they've ever employed, i cant get a job because no white man wanna give me a chance, i tried to join community support officer but i was scorned at. please dont use drug dealing as an excuse for the problem, thats a minority. ask any young black males if the respect or look up to any white males and you'll see. we have no role models in our community simply because we haven't been given opportunities. how do you become a doctor if your parents work at minimum wage in morrisons with two other children. we cant turn water into wine, help is needed form all sides

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  69. fact is white man made drugs and used it for centuries to make populations submit and be overpowered look at the british in asia indonesia, malaysia etc. young 17 year old black males don't make guns or the harmful drugs. how comes the people who go to work everyday and build guns and distribute them for profit how come they don't get locked up? young black males don't own planes to transport weapons or have control of the docks? the war on drugs been going on before i was born yet still it's worse than ever, we are minority fact is more white people are drug dealing and have guns. yet still we always get the backlash in our community when none of you understand

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  70. Everyone

    Thanks again for your comments, and for keeping the tone (mostly) respectful. There is a lot here for people to think about and I intend to use some of it to put to the Council and our MP at some point to get some action where there needs to be some.

    In the meantime, just to show this debate is being watched, the local Borough Police Commander for Hammersmith & Fulham has posted a message on this blog in response to some of your comments. You can read it here http://bit.ly/iVmqI6 or just by clicking on the banner at the top of the page.

    Thanks again for the debate - we all have a role to play in trying to make Shepherd's Bush a better place.

    Chris

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  71. I know what you mean as I feel like that also, I have so much little power.

    no offence take as it is very well said .


    I was thinking along the lines of legalizing Drugs . I even said it to one of the police offers who only answered back " There is a debate about it"


    So I goggled it found something from this.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/leaders-attack-call-to-legalise-drugs-2162653.html

    Leaders attack call to legalise drugs
    By Nigel Morris
    Friday, 17 December 2010
    Political leaders united in condemnation yesterday of a former drugs minister's call for all illicit substances, including heroin, to be legalised.

    The Labour MP Bob Ains-worth, pictured, said banning drugs had failed to tackle the problem of addiction and suggested that production and supply should be taken away from criminal gangs and regulated. But a spokesman for his leader, Ed Miliband, labelled the idea "irresponsible". The spokesman added: "Bob's views do not reflect Ed's views, the party's view or indeed the view of the vast majority of the public." David Cameron's official spokesman said: "Drugs are harmful and legalising them isn't the answer to minimising that harm."


    In the Commons yesterday Mr Ainsworth called for a "serious debate" on the best way of tackling drug abuse.

    His call received cross-party backing from several MPs.

    Someone commented
    So his views don't reflect that of the "vast majority of the public"? So how come a poll in the Daily Mail, not known for liberalism, voted 70% in favour of decriminalisation?

    Must look that up.

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  72. police dont care just wanna lock up more young black males then we'll all be safe eh? just watch they'll be harrasing us none stop now as if it wasn't bad enough before. why don't they try stop and searching some young white males coz their families are rich and powerful probably other prfessional people who have funds to finance legal action. i've seen undercover police beat a black boy on richmond way opposite lakeside road about 6 weeks ago i filmed it yet still there is no outcry for that police can go to hell. look forward to being stopped and searched a lot in the next few days.

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  73. As a slight aside, does anyone recall hearing gunshot the night before this murder on the opposite side of the Shepherd's Bush Road. About 10pm? May have been fireworks, but I've connected the two events in my mind.

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  74. The person who said all youth clubs are closed down, try the Masbro Centre. It's open. It's around the corner from where this tragedy took place and they have always been very nice to my children for many many years.

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  75. got stopped last night told i was in area known for dugs i was going home i asked what am i gonna be searched on suspicion of it was obvious i was suspected of dealing drugs next to my own house. so how do you avoid that. everytime i'm stopped and searched i'm in a knife or drug hotspot and i fit the description. yeah black police can go to hell

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  76. these white men think they so smart, being in an area dont make you a drug dealer or a weapon carrier but its the nasty racist stereotype they have of every black man so why even try make things better they want us dead or in prison. fact is their sons and daughters are not been molested by the system. but as usual most white people wanna ignore the real facts, they can stop us all they want, they cant lock up every blak man

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  77. see how the white people wanna side step the real issues typical slide of hand tactics, this website is very political and once again if we look at all the posts clearly we can see the dark side of bigotry that lives in this country not only in the institutions like the police but also the citizens. It's sad to say but if it was a little white girl or boy this would be a much bigger story as usual we can see buffers. the police with their brutal and racist tactics against our community must wise up and truly deliver justice to a marginalised section of the community

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  78. they say the police is watching this but i promise everyone the police response will be as usual
    :more stop and searches of young black males
    :systematic abuse of young black males
    :more black males in prison
    :new laws or curfews to target us
    why cant they just be fair, they wouldn't even me join the force coz they only need 1 black 1 asian to fulfill there equal opportunties law. jokers

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  79. All those black men aren't in prison for doing nothing, are they? Are you saying they're all completely innocent? Is the current spate of black-on-black gun and knife crime just made up then? Or perhaps your community needs to recognise it has a problem and start addressing it in a responsibly manner instead of blaming everyone else.

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  80. do black men get stopped and searched dispproportionally than other races for yes so grow up you bigot. raul mot killed and maimed is he black please a young man lost his life

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  81. daniella westbook or whatever is her brother black just cause. you white people are un real and you are cowards

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  82. unfortunately here the stereotypes start again. have you not read any of the positive posts above?! re read your posts : 17:04 - can you not see by saying stuff like 'you white people' etc is fueling peoples excuses to divide. im white and just as it annoys you that black people are stereotyped thats exactly what you are doing to me. Two wrongs dont make a right so i am happy to rise above your poor use of words. and i agree there have been bigotted statements from BOTH races. I understand you may be talking about a certain type of white person but by saying 'you white people' is putting me and every other white person in the same boat. surely all of us 'white people' arent all like this, i know i'm not!!! you're doing exactly what you say the police are doing etc to black people portraing them in the same light. Personally i see myself as an individual way before i am white and this is how i see others.
    if you want to rise above hatred you must stop hating on others and im talking to EVERYONE - its a vicious cycle which only ends in more hatred and division. Rise above it!

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  83. To the above poster: I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make. Are you?

    So you're black. I get that, though I don't care. Couldn't give a rat's ass.

    You seem to care deeply that I'm white. You appear to believe my skin tone makes me complicit to an anti-black conspiracy. Fair enough then. Everyone's welcome to have an opinion, even the racists.

    What does any of this have to do with crime? What does it have to do with a man getting shot in the face?

    It's unfortunate that you feel black youths are being unfairly targeted by the police. That's probably down to profiling rather than stereotyping (see note below). Honestly, though, as a victim of crime I couldn't care what colour the perpetrator is. I just don't want to be the victim of crime, please.

    ("a breakdown of the ethnicity of the 18,091 men and boys who police took action against for a range of violent and sexual offences in London in 2009-10 ... show that among those proceeded against for street crimes, 54 per cent were black; for robbery, 59 per cent; and for gun crimes, 67 per cent. Just over 12 per cent of London’s 7.5 million population is black, including those of mixed black and white parentage, while 69 per cent is white, according to the Office for National Statistics." Source -- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7856787/Violent-inner-city-crime-the-figures-and-a-question-of-race.html

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  84. I've lived in Shepherds Bush for several years now and have always felt it to be a relatively safe and friendly place.

    I'm white male late 20s and come from a council estate background in a different city where there is little ethnic minority. Yet they have the same problems there so I don't think it has anything to do with race. But I do think it has a lot to do with social grade.

    I honestly think the government should bring back National Service and give young people a choice: attend higher education, take a skilled apprenticeship or serve in the military.

    That way the contingent of youth who don't want to learn or work and feel the need to 'flex their muscles' and display their territorial aggression can do it (and play with guns as much as they want). Along the way they'd probably learn some discipline and self-respect.

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  85. My skin colour is white, but I was not born in Britten. I was born in a place called Gibraltar my parents are Spanish we emigrated to Britten in the 60s like a lot of black people did.

    I married a black man. I have experience racism from while, black, European people.

    I have no criminal record. Only experience I have had from the police is when my son use to get into trouble with the police.

    One police man even said to me when my son was around 13 years old , used to get into trouble with the law that mix race children are confused. Was taken back with him saying that. I was brought up very respectful, patriotic which is England - Gibraltar is British. (There no gun crime in Gibraltar).

    Ruled by RC church very family orientated, but have a divinity of culture and religion which lives in peace respect for each other culture. Don’t get me wrong they also have dugs issue within the community .



    My son had 2 English friends one from wealthy parent one from a working class family.

    The one from the wealthy family had 32 convictions I found that out after he was charged with a murder, but did not get stop in his wealthy car by police like my son would when he was driving his girlfriend car.
    Well my son mix race so police would wonder how he would afford a car like that.

    People on hear have made valued point in how black, mix race people are more likely to get stop .

    I look it up found this .

    http://www.charitytimes.com/ct/stop_and_search.php




    The Commission's Stop and Think report uses data from the Ministry of Justice, the Home Office, the Metropolitan Police and the Office for National Statistics, to analyse trends in stop and search use around the country.

    Across England and Wales there were 22 stops and searches per 1,000 people in 2007/08. Breaking this down for the different ethnic groups it reveals that the black population had the highest rate of stop and search at over 110 per 1,000; the rate for Asian people was over 30 per 1,000, and it was 17 per 1,000 for white people.

    If black people were stopped and searched at the same rate as white people in 2007/2008, there would have be around 25,000 stops and searches of black people. Instead, there were over 170,000.

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  86. I am still very patriotic - inspired by love for my country England, Gibraltar.

    England is rich in diversity
    The concept of diversity encompasses acceptance and respect.
    It means understanding that each individual is unique,
    and recognizing our individual differences. These can be along
    the dimensions of race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, socio-economic status, age, physical abilities, religious beliefs,
    political beliefs, or other ideologies. It is the exploration
    of these differences in a safe, positive, and nurturing environment.
    It is about understanding each other and moving beyond
    simple tolerance to embracing and celebrating the
    rich dimensions of diversity contained within each individual.

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  87. I grew up in Clem attlee estate and speak to people who live there now and they say its got worse with crime..why?

    When i was a kid, me and my friends would be on the streets playing, going to parks, playing sports in free tennis courts or even hanging out in the adventure playground that was on lille road-north end road.
    Now i have a 13 yr old son, there is nothing free, if there is its far, everything is locked and non affordable.
    Only one youth club has been mentioned, wheres all the sports and activities.

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  88. Masbro Centre... name me some more? We'er not only talking about bush..this is happening everywhere!!

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  89. Need places for bikes, skaeboards, roller blades, graffiti art walls, more for the older youth.

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  90. Ray (west London for 45 years)11 May 2011 at 23:58

    Condolences to the family and friends of the victim of this crime.

    To the people, young and black I'm guessing, who are blaming white middle class people, lack of respect, nowhere to go, no job, no opportunity etc etc. How does that translate into one black youth killing another black youth? If you are marginalised, stereotyped, excluded by society at large why does that lead you to take your brother's life? Why not organise, educate, uplift and fight what keeps you down? If anything is keeping you down it's not your brother or cousin or school colleague, so why are you shooting him?

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  91. Q: How does a 20 year old obtain a GUN!!

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  92. I am having over drive on my imagination about the young woman in the car, while her boyfriend is being shot I can invasion it in my imagination happening just like I do with my son being shot in Fulham court.

    Learning to live within myself is so hard without my son and hearing of someone else’s murder being shot re starts my brain ticking over, over over.


    I will never accept this as part of life. I will not rest have peace of mind to that person who done this to my son is found .

    No one going to answer why one black brother is killing another black brother, when they are not really brothers
    Due to the consequences of my sons friends who called each other “ BROTHER “ they got him murdered because of their actions in allegedly murdering someone else .

    One of them who had the dame check to say to my daughter when people where calling him a “ murder “
    I was more a brother to your brother then you were a sister to your brother.
    There no brotherhood within the drug culture.
    On June 4th nearly 2 years since my son death he has only been to our home one time that is only because my daughter in law called him to see her son my grandchild that my son never knew that his wife was expecting.


    People that cool bloodily shot someone have no morals, no values, they do not value life. They live for the moment they are just plan Psychopaths having no empathy for anyone , because if they had empathy they would understand cognitively the in pack it has on the family when someone is so cruelly taken from life in being murdered only a psychopath would not feel that empathy for human life, only for themselves and the money they gain from controlling the drugs or being payee by a drug dealer to murder someone else.

    I said my Piece now and peace I wish to you all.

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  93. There's quite a few comments about along the lines of "there's so much to do in London, you have no excuse."

    Please don't forget that if you have low/no income, £1.90 single on the tube / £1.30 single on the bus is actually a lot of money. (16-18/New Deal Oyster helps, but £0.95 / £0.65 is still a lot of cash when it adds up). I've known several people who simply haven't done something because the travel is too expensive for their tight budgets.

    Gigs / comedy, etc - again, a lot of these are a couple of quid, which is a lot of money for some. That's assuming you can even get in without showing a passport / driving license (another £100 that people simply don't have).

    And please don't suggest using Boris Bikes to get around - you need to have a credit card or a debit card with £200 spare sitting on it. Again, many people on low incomes simply won't be able to get a credit card, and won't have that kind of money sloshing around in a current account.

    Please consider that it's not a clear cut case of people being too lazy to do something. The cost of travel in this city is actually a big barrier to people finding employment and taking advantage of all that this city has to offer.

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  94. @Mark:

    1) Under 16s get free bus travel. Over 16s are old enough to get a part-time job to cover these things. There are loads of places in/around the Bush... especially with huge shopping centres like Westfield and places like Notting Hill and Hammersmith so close.

    2) Boris bikes are really unnecessary. If you ask nicely on your nearest FreeCycle group (http://www.freecycle.org/group/UK/London) someone will almost certainly GIVE you a bike for free. All you need to buy is a bike lock!

    3) There are plenty of free things to do. If it's comedy you're after, there's free comedy at the Comedy Café on Tuesday and Wednesday nights (http://www.comedycafe.co.uk/). Wednesday is Open Mic too, so if you've been a few times and think you can do better then you can have a go yourself! Loads of pubs do free music/comedy (plenty of local ones included) and with a bit of work Under 26s can get free theatre tickets too (http://www.anightlessordinary.org.uk/). This is all before you consider that this City has more free museums than anywhere else in the UK (http://daysoutguide.co.uk/free-london-museums.aspx).

    With so many other landmarks and attractions not charging for entry, there IS a lot to do out there...

    http://www.londonforfree.net/
    http://www.freelondonevents.co.uk/
    http://www.londonfreelist.com/
    http://www.visitlondon.com/tag/free-attractions
    http://www.allinlondon.co.uk/whats-on.php?show=FREE

    AND don't forget that in the Bush we have BBC TELEVISION CENTRE (for now). You can apply for free tickets to shows here:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/showsandtours/tickets/

    (Word of warning for BBC shows - they give out more tickets than there is space to ensure a full audience, so you need to turn up an hour or so before the doors open).

    So yes. I very much agree with you Mark. There is clearly NOTHING for these people to do...

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  95. And another killing... this time in Camberwell...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-13370825

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  96. I live on Lakeside Road and have done for many years, I am a white middle class working male in my late 20's and my two pennies are this:

    People think by suggesting that bored youths should go out to comedy nights and gigs etc. to prevent themselves from being bored and hanging around the streets is clearly not very "down with street politics"!

    If you're a black youth or a group of black youths travelling out of your area to a different postcode is like inviting other local youths of that area to mug you or humiliate you. They get grief by other local kids of that area who don't recognise them and want to know why they're there, if they can't give a satisfactory answer (going to a comedy gig is unlikely to placate them!) then they maybe stabbed or beaten or robbed.

    Lakeside Road is a street full of council tenants, absolutely nothing wrong with that and the majority are nice people that keep themselves to themselves inspite of not having much money or support or hope. I have had slightly uneasy feelings about the two buildings at the start of the street near Blythe Road with cameras outside as I think they're some kind of halfway homes for prisoners or people that need temporary sheltered accom and I've witnessed some intimidating and threatening things happen there including a man beating a woman in the street. However, I NEVER see any police walking around or doing anything to ease the fear of any residents that might feel the same as I do.

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  97. There are a few kids that hang around, they can be annoying but I wouldn't call them intimidating and in a way I quite like having them there.

    I've never seen much evidence of drug dealing on the street, sometimes you smell a bit of weed but that's not the end of the world. But who do you think buys these drugs? If all the black people are unemployed and have to fund themselves through selling drugs presuambly it's the middle class whites in the area that want to get away from the intensity of their high pressure jobs they so proudly talk about!

    I do take drugs but I wouldn't buy them from a black teenager as I would expect them to be of a far poorer quality and much more expensive than my other contacts who are not street kids scrabbling to earn £50 a day!

    In the case of this shooting it seems there are two possibilities, one is that the man in the car was immersed in the drug world and was shot as part of a disagreement over money/drugs. If you inhabit that world, in this day and age, you can expect to land yourself in that sort of bother. Kids will shoot each other of a £500 debt which is roughly 3 oz of weed!

    Or, it was a case of mistaken identity (I don't buy that persoanlly) in which case it's a massive tragedy, or it was a personal dispute possibly or usually over a woman!

    And anyone naive enough to question how they procured a handgun needs to go into their kitchen cupboard, find the nescafe, wake up and smell it! You can buy a replica pistol off the internet and convert it to fire crude ammunition capable of killing someone with a tool kit! Kids do it in their DT class at school! These guns are passed around and rented out all over London it is as easy to get a gun as it is to get a knife!

    White people: Stop being scared of blacks kids, you alienate yoursleves and make yourselves victims by living in fear, you also alienate black people and make them conform to the idea that they're criminals. Try talking to them and being polite and if you don't get anywhere just smile and walk away, then try again another time, you might be surprised.

    Black people: Get out of this ridiculous "Us against them" world that you've become accustomed to, I have black friends that grew up on White City, West Ken estates that left all that behind and got a bit wiser and moved on with their lives. Not everyone is a racist, not all white people look down on you, not all of us are scared of you not all of us hate you! Try reaching out a bit and you might like what you get in return!

    To summarise, people need to take more ecstasy.

    Peace out.

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  98. Both of the last posts were meant to be one post but it got too big so I had to do it in two posts!

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  99. the fact is yes police do a good job sometimes but on issues like this most times they run into a brick wall due to people in the black community being distrustful or fearful of them maybe due to past encounters. personally i wouldn't report a crime because i feel like even if i did and tried to be friends with all the police in my area, i'll still be stopped and searched dispproportionally than other races, we must address this look at the figures posted it's all fact but heads are being buried in the sand as usual

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  100. just looked at the figures posted about stop and searches by margaret, definite targetting there mate

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  101. another dead in camberwell what a tradegy, my condolences to both victims but seriously the police always come late, probably busy with paperwork, filling out another needless stop and search form, wonder if they look into their own statistics and figures/data then they could see that we must all work together instead of targetting

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  102. Just a very quick question..

    I used to be resident on Lakeside for about 13 years, and I probably know most of the anonymous posters as they would know me..

    I remember VIVIDLY how nice Lakeside was, you remember them times just when they had all the scaffold up, cleaned and painted the brickwork, installed the intercoms etc..

    Now, remember Lakeside's matriarch? How much of this degradation and business going on nowadays would still be happening if Tina Deygoo was still sitting on her doorstep in the afternoons having a fag and a coffee and making sure people didnt ramp?

    What the area needs is a strong person to fill them big boots and bring back the COMMUNITY to Lakeside..

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  103. I'm from Glasgow. The ned culture (chaves) is horrendous. They are threatening and abusive. They too stab, shoot and kill one another.

    They are all white

    I've lived in London for 5 years. If you think the problems in W12 are race related, think again.

    It's the result of poor schooling, poor parenting and decades of governmental neglect for our society. Instead of starting wars abroad, we should be fighting the problems we have across the country.

    My thoughts go to those that have lost in this terrible incident

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  104. Could someone please explain to me how being statistically unfairly subjected to Police searches because of your ethnicity become an excuse for murder?

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  105. Looks like most of the latest comments are being made by the same person. So whilst depressing to read - this isn't some sort of huge Black vs White resentment going on.

    If anything, as soon as you pick up a weapon and use it agains others, ou deserve the full force of the law on you, whatever colour you are.

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